Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:04:00 -0600 From: "Earl F. Mouton" To: lriddle@ucsd.edu Subject: Point Honda Incident Larry: My father was involved in the Point Honda disaster in 1923. He was on the USS Young (DD-312) which is pictured on its side in the upper middle portion of your picture. I would appreciate hearing from you if you have any bibliographical information concerning the disaster. I have Admiral Lockwood's book, Tragedy at Honda, some pictures that my father had received from some source. I would like specifically any pictures, narratives and where I might obtain the records of the Courts Martials of the officers involved and the records of the Court of Inquiry. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you, Earl F. Mouton, USN, Retired -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:48:22 -0700 From: weather@weather.ucsd.edu (Larry "The Weather Man" Riddle) To: earlf@color-country.net Subject: Re: Point Honda Incident There was a discussion of Pt Honda sources a short while ago. Attached below is that discussion. It sould provide you with several pointers toward additional information. -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- From: "John Hylton" To: Subject: Point Honda Incident Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:17:25 -0000 I consider myself to be a fairly knowledgeable military history buff, but was unaware of this incident until I read a piece in the local newspaper announcing a memorial service/reunion for the survivors. Do you have any additional info on this subject? Specifically, what the Board of Inquiry or any courts martial proceedings had to say. Thanks in advance. John -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- From: "Riddle, Bill" To: lriddle@ucsd.edu Subject: RE: Point Honda Incident Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:02:00 -0400 Refer to: _Tragedy At Honda_ C.A. Lockwood and H.C. Adamson Chilton Company 1960 Huel Howser did a program on this incident for his PBS series "California's Gold". -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- Bill: Because of a bbs foulup on my end, I receive posts from mahan-l but cannot reply to the list. Thus, I'm coming back directly to you. There have been a number of articles on the Pt. Honda disaster, and a book or two as well. I have a copy of _Course 095 to Eternity_, written and published by a local historian; not great writing, but well-researched. I also just ran across an article in the Southern Pacific Bulletin (their employees' magazing) from the period chronicling SP's role in the rescue; I just posted it to the Maritime History list (Marhst-l), where it should be available in the list archives. John Snyder John_Snyder@bbs.macnexus.org -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- As a reminder, the US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum's website has a photo feature on the disaster at Pt. Honda. The URL is: http://www.uss-salem.org/features/honda/ -Brooks From: Brooks A Rowlett [SMTP:brooksar@indy.net] at DISAHUB Date: 6/16/98 9:52AM Subject: Re: Point Honda Incident -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- According to "By Human Error", Capt. Geoffrey Bennett, DSC,RN (London, 1961), "The squadron commander, the captain and the navigating officer of the Delphy were all found guilty and sentenced to loss of seniority. Of the remaining accused only the captain of the Nicolas, fifth ship in the line, was convicted, a verdict which was set aside by higher authority." There has been a persistent story in circulation for years that the skippers of the ships that did not go aground were cashiered for not following orders. Mike Mullen, ETN2, USNR (Ret) From: MEMullen@aol.com [SMTP:MEMullen@aol.com] at DISAHUB Date: 6/16/98 12:31AM Subject: Re: Point Honda Incident -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- If you have access to a large library with a good periodicals section, see if they have back issues of NAVAL HISTORY magazine. On p. 20 of the Spring 1992 issue is an article about the Point Honda disaster entitled "Destroyers Down!". If your library doesn't have it, try the U.S. Naval Institute directly. They may have back issues. Regarding culpability, the article says this: "By Saturday morning [of the first week of testimony]... Captain Watson, weary and recognizing that his naval career had virtually ended, accepted full responsibility for the catastrophe." [Watson was the commander of the destroyer squadron] "The second week of testimony delved into the the issue of destroyer doctrine of "follow the leader". {i.e., are the other destroyer captains who followed the squadron commander onto the rocks also guilty of negligence or were they simply "following orders"] "On 1 October Secretary Denby announced the shocking results of the investigation. Eleven officers were recommended for court-martial. Captain Watson, LtCom Hunter and Lt. Blodgett faced charges of culpable inefficiency in the performance of duty and, through negligence, suffering vessels of the Navy to be run upon the rocks. The two division commanders and six destroyer captains were to stand trial on charges of negligence. The unwritten doctrine that destroyer captains must follow the leader had been repudiated at the highest levels." This is a very interesting article, and has many embarassing photos of destroyers all ass-over-elbow against the rocks. It would be funny if 23 men had not died in the wreckage. Honda Point is now part of Vandenburg Air Force Base. Does anyone know, was it a military reservation back then? Tom Tom Robison Ossian, Indiana tcrobi@adamswells.com -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:26:33 -0700 From: weather@weather.ucsd.edu (Larry "The Weather Man" Riddle) Message-Id: <9806161926.AA22066@weather.UCSD.EDU> Subject: Vandenberg AFB Bill: I'm sending this to both you and mahan@microworks.net. If the second address doesn't work, please forward it. > Honda Point is now part of Vandenburg Air Force Base. Does anyone know, was > it a military reservation back then? The Army purchased/leased/eased 86,000+ acres from several private owners in March 1941. Prior to that time it was Spanish land grants and cattle ranches. The purpose was to set up a tank training base. The acquisition was completed and construction began in September 1941 and activation was in October. It was named Camp Cooke after MGen Philip St. George Cooke of US Calvary fame. I don't know what, if anything, he accomplished that was important. WW II units trained at Camp Cooke include: Armored Divs: 5th, 6th, 11th, 13th, and 20th Infantry Divs: 86th, 97th 2d Filipino Infantry Others trained: triple-A, combat engineers, ordnance, hospital units Confined: German and Italian POWs Camp Cooke was closed in 1946 and reactivated in August 1950. In 1953, Camp Cooke was turned over to disciplinary barracks "house keepers". The Air Force took over control of the majority of the base in 1957 with the disciplinary barracks going to the US Bureau of Prisons. All this information came from the Vandenberg AFB webpage at: http://www.vafb.af.mil/30swmain.html Larry -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- From: "Riddle, Bill" To: mahan@microwrks.com, lriddle@ucsd.edu Subject: RE: Vandenberg AFB Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 13:40:00 -0400 Clarification: Philip St George Cooke of the 1st Regiment of Dragoons (then a brevet LtCol) commanded the Mormon Battalion of volunteer infantry during the Mexican War. As such he led them on their epic march (still the longest by U.S. infantry) from Ft Leavenworth to San Diego. (Although he actually assumed command at Santa Fe.) The Mormon Battalion was the follow-on element of the Army of the West commanded by BGen Stephen Watts Kearny. (The lead element being two companies of the 1st Dragoons, with some reinforcements, under the direct command of Kearny.) The Mormon Battalion spent the second half of their year of service performing garrison duties around southern California. They also performed what the Army today would refer to as "nation building" activities. Such as constructing civic buildings and digging wells. All this probably was the reason for selecting his as the name for Camp Cooke. Cooke later commanded the 2d Cavalry in the army commanded by John Sydney Johnston during the "Mormon War." In salute to his former command, as the army passed through Salt Lake City, Cooke rode with his head uncovered. I forget what he did during the Civil War. But as Larry's note indicates he retired as a MGen, I suspect that he was a corps commander. Bill Riddle -------=-=-=-----=-=-=-=-=-=------<[=]>------=-=-=-=-=-=-----=-=-=------- Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 18:06:28 -0600 From: "Earl F. Mouton" To: lriddle@ucsd.edu Subject: Pt. Honda info My sincere appreciation for the information that you forwarded to me, any little bit helps. This perhaps can get me moving in the right direction. Again thanx, Earl F. Mouton